the final limiting/compressing/mastering thread

[dr3xl]

Okay, so I have a more or less okay-ish mixdown, and now I need to make everything nice, clear and loud.
What plugins in what order do you apply to the mixdown? (please note, software only)

My problems are :
1) the end result sounds HORRIBLE and I cannot figure out which frequencies clash even at mixdown stage
2) I am not sure whether I should use a compressor (such as Voxengo Sonic Finalizer) before a limiter (such as L3). Of course, it depends on the sound etc, but is it a common practice? Either I'm doing something horribly wrong or something, but everything turns into "gelatinous goo" when I apply the compressor - granted, some elements sound a lot fatter too. I mean, I don't even use too harsh settings. I also understand there is no "rule of thumb".

Basically, anything I try seems to fuck up the sound even further. Some of mates have said I use samples which don't have good sound quality in the first place, but when I bought extra sound banks which feature quite top-notch quality hits, I fuck them up too.

So what would be the key points and tips? How much headroom would I need to leave before final mastering?

[cnetik]

i made a similar thread about final/master chains on the lifted music forums... which in turn was "inspired" by a thread on doa:

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=556325

as i posted in that lifted thread

i have been doing my master signal processing in a similar way to what mista/mistabishi, leaving some headroom on finals:

i always eq *into* the limiter, never afterwards. the limiters add thier strange excitation a little bit, and the outputs are set to make sure it's not gonna jitter or cause downstream distortion when it's time to cut. as for how the mix sounds it's purely subjective obviously, but just make sure the digital safety nets are there as the last thing in the chain to make sure the mastering house's converters get the smoothest signal possible

there's definitely no general rule as far as headroom goes, as long as there's room to work it should be ok. as far as plugin use and order, i think it depends on what you're trying to do. squashed to fuck mixes can work, if that's your intention. for example most of spor's stuff sounds way too squashed for me, but that's the direction he's going for. in that case, compression and limiting is used to shape the sound as fit.

i've played around with some stuff in various genres since this line of thought, but to keep it short, and i'm no expert, less is more. don't rely on plugins and tools you don't really need in order to get the sound you want.

a decent eq is a much more powerful tool in my eyes to get things sounding the way you want. coupled with frequency analyzers for those who don't know their equipment all that well, you have a powerful combo. some eqs like voxengo's gliss already do both. to me limiters and compressors are relied on way too often, and not always for their intended purpose, as a fast way to get things sounding "powerful" or "controlled". they are the bane of many of todays mixdowns and producers. i'm sure most would agree to being guilty of resorting to them every now and then though.

misanthrop gave some advice in the lifted thread, he applies parallel compression to the whole mix, in a pre-master sort of way:

a technique i recently like very much to "thicken" a mix is ,
to use a "pre master" group and a parallel compression group...

that means..
route all elements (group tracks) to your pre master group track.
use a send track from the pre master to the parallel compression group.
route both parallel group and premaster to your master fader.

put a compressor of your choice(preferable/distressor/cl1B/fairchild/uad bus comp/comps with colour !!), on the parallel compression group.

ratio: 2:1
thrsh: -50 db
attack:fast
release:no pumping , medium ...
gain: as much as you like ...

your mix will be louder and thicker ...

he names some expensive stuff there, but like said your compressor of choice should work. again though, this is just his advice, and it can be used for independent buses as well. experimentation takes time but you usually end up knowing your way around the tools a lot better.

hope this helps! maybe upload a clip of your mixdown if you want more specific advice though.

[Lethal]

depends on where the outcome is heading... if its going to be mastered for vinyl then ease off a bit to give them something to work with, and go for higher bit rate too.
if its just for yourself to play out then you can be a bit heavier

dont look to a limiter/compressor to 'fix' your mix.. the goal should be just to get an extra bit of pump in the volume stakes.
but the most important thing is to do the groundwork in your mix first...
i recommend turning all the channels down so your master isnt clipping (or just turn your master down if a clipped channel is adding to a particular sound) then get to work.
once youve got a mix your happy with then get a good limiter/multiband compressor on that master channel... id go for the compressor though, limiters are more brickwall approach, but depends what your after
personally i use the PSP Vintagewarmer, i like how it sounds and it doesnt squash the mix when used right...

the Izotope Ozone is good too, although better to master something for yourself to playout

[dr3xl]

Yes, that old good "mix finalize 1" pre-set trick. A couple of months ago, my typical chain on the master would have been:
1) PSP VintageWarmer with the preset mentioned above, only slightly corrected so that no peak would exceed +1...+2dB
2) GlissEQ (optional - if I felt the master needs it)
3) Voxengo Sonic Finalizer, using Transparency or Mastering Compression setting as a basis, then tweaked - somehow it seemed that "un-compressing" (setting the ratio below 1:1) the highs didn't sound that pleasant
4) GlissEQ (again optional)
5) L3 UltraMaximizer - Multi is more powerful but I don't feel secure with it yet, as with any multi-band thing But my typical idea would be changing the profile instantly from Basic to Wide Manual or Loud and Proud, depending on the nature of the tune, sliding down the threshold and fiddling around with the release - usually it seems like shorter release gives a lot more punch. I also try never to limit things for more than 3-4dB.

Now I have ditched PSP (because in my opinion it destroys certain harmonics in the upper midrange) and Sonic Finalizer, which sounds good at the beginning but when I start comparing the final sound with reference tracks - well, you know, some well-sounding commercial ones - my final result wets itself.

Normally I am also quite careful about compressing, because until recent I didn't understand the process too well, I mean I know what a compressor does, it's just the ratio/attack/release that was confusing me. But then again, I'm still learning

Anyway, most of my projects tend to have -1 to -3dB peak at master output after the mixdown.

I would post the particular clip I'm having trouble with, but I don't think that's the right forum for that, because it's a fairly mellow and soulful techhouse tune 

edit: Just saw you mention Ozone, well, yeah, it has one of my favourite features ever, the aural exciter. Now that's a powerful tool. Then again, partly because I lack the experience, and partly because it tends to distort the original sound too much if used heavily (good example would be hats and pads), I haven't been using it that much.

[halogendnb]

If it is sounding 'horrible' it might be more of an eq issue, not so much dynamics. Even with quality samples make sure frequencies are not overlapping too deeply

[woodammo]

Although an exciter, as you say, is a powerfull tool. It might not be that good of an idea, to put it on the master, as its' only function is introducing harmonics and that by having it on the master means that every single thing is being affected. Think of it as sheen or glare or whatever and use different instances for the highs and the lows. BTw i wouldnt recommend (vst-) exciters to anyone, because imo they sound unnaturel compaired with the results you can get from software eqing. If you already know all this and have a grasp on how to use it properly, contradict me and enlighten us..

[mumblz]

an OK'ish mixdown will only result in a OK'ish master!

make sure your 100% happy w mixdown before mastering it
as they say,,,,u cant polish a turd

id leave decent amount of headroom in ur mixdown to master,,,,but not too much cause then u have to master alot more,,,,but dont brickwall ur mixdown or u have no room to master

mastering,,,i use wavs linmb...linear multiband....lets u go into 5 freq sections and do ur thing to each

seems nowadays,,,,
people master to bout 5db over 0,,,,so it fits well w most tunes (loudness comparison)
offkey tunes r mastered a bit lower (which i prefer) so its more dynamics to it

when ur mastering ur tune,,id compare to some final mastered tunes so u know the loudness factor

i babbled,,hope it helps
 

[dr3xl]

I mean OK'ish as "the best I'm capable of" which is surely not "great" by allaround standards. But I am confident that my mixdowns do sound quite well compared to others I've heard in The Grid, for instance.

[histibe]

http://vimeo.com/808485

[danc9000]

http://vimeo.com/808485

[dr3xl]

babicz = legend. thanks.

[mumblz]

great video BUT most of us dont have $50k studios
id liek to see a similar video where they use software not hardware!!!!!

drexl...check ur pms!!

[histibe]

He use EQ for mastering (tape machine it is just a matter of taste) and "compressor" don't do much in his work,
but this is all digital* processes, just with different algorithms and formulas.
You can do a good mastering with high-quality software, monitors for 450-500 $ and pro soundcard for 300 $.

Today "hardware" may be appropriate only if it is a good synthesizer or drum-machine.

"Mastering process" it is just a kind of balance process between the volume and frequency of tracks in "single" or "album", but tracks should be already good.